Curse

Moloch Vein · Nov 18, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

A "30 energy, 5 second cast Spiteful Spirit on a minute recharge" is a huge exaggeration.

The copy will work for 20 seconds which means there will be two spell uses if the battle lasts that long. Thus in those cases the casting cost is 22.5 energy for the echoed SS.

The cooldown is 20 seconds.

The argument regarding splitting other spells than SS on your bar still stands.

Obviously, though, when I do play SS as my own build I either do it in organized teams, or in AB, where an SS build is ridiculously effective against the low player quality in those areas. In AB I don't bother with Arcane Echo for various reasons. In an organized team effective killing of the mob is at a premium.

When I play on my own with my necromancer, using H/H, I nearly always use SV, with Arcane Echo, Glyph of Swiftness, or Serpent's Quickness.

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 18, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Before AE got buffed to it's 20sec recharge, it wasn't really a good skill but still useful depending on the situation. If you have access to pve skills, a few of those are also worth echo'ing, especially Pain inverter.

Btw, If your Asura rank is very high, Asuran Scan puts Barbs to shame - It affects all your allies attacks, not just your own. At max rank and 12swordsman, 43 dmg turns into 75 (wild blow). Even better, it increases bonus damage - final thrust did 187dmg on a crit hit

Ensign · Nov 18, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

A "30 energy, 5 second cast Spiteful Spirit on a minute recharge" is a huge exaggeration.

Like everything else on this type of bar it comes down to what you are doing with it. Arcane Echo shines when you are faced with a big mob of nonthreatening foes. In that case you can kill more quickly by going into full Spiteful mode. Nothing wrong with it there. If you're facing a big mob of threatening foes, however, Arcane Echo becomes questionable as Enfeebling Blood becomes a much higher priority than Spiteful Spirit. There's little point in echoing Enfeebling Blood, and paying 30 energy for the second copy of Spiteful Spirit isn't very attractive - the second cast off of the echo becomes questionable as well when you're casting non-Spiteful spells with frequency.

The other thing you need to look at is whether you're playing with a flexible bar or a rigid bar. If you have a rigid bar, with only a few tools or very specific tools, Arcane Echo is much more attractive since you can get more out of the situationally appropriate one. If you are playing a more flexible bar, with several skills relevant to a given encounter, then Arcane Echo becomes bad as your energy would be better spent going straight into those other spells.

Polarizing the discussion is Glyph of Lesser Energy; it simplifies everything down to whether you want a wider selection and more spells overall, or fewer spells overall but with a much more focused selection. Personally, I can look at the bars with Arcane Echo on them and agree with why it is there, but I would never run a bar like those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

If your Asura rank is very high

Asuran skills tend to synergize very well with what a Necromancer wants to do. It's clearly the title to prioritize if you want to make good use of the new PvE skills.

nebuchanezzar · Nov 19, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Wow, I'm about to disagree with Ensign somewhat...ug. However, when I run AE + SS it's not so hard to manage energy wise at all. Precast AE and wait for regen while flagging in a warrior hero. Cast SS > Enfeebling(by now the MM's pets are charging in and the mobs are balled up usually) > Arcaned SS, Barbs on a priority target. So far I have spent(not counting AE as I have refilled usually) 50 Energy over the course of of about 9ish seconds(and regened just under 12 Energy in that time).
Now either the mobs are getting mopped up or if its a long fight problems can arise. I have a couple solutions that work for me. The first is a hero running a minion bomber build which often keeps my bar full alone as it is. The second is weapon swapping up to a 76 energy set to throw out whatever I need.
However, the key point is the minion factory/bomber that recycles bodies for high energy return. The whole argument loses some merit without that one specific slot in your team.
To be honest Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom is probably a much more valuable slot as it provides your whole team with over 50% fast recharge on spells. I recommend Arcane Echo highly if used well and under the right circumstances and it is in my personal SS build probably 75%+ of the time. The most important thing is probably your own play style.
Most of the advice here is very valid but like all advice is flavored by personal opinions and biases. I have had many people express concerns about energy when running SS + AE and the issue is real but not nearly as heavy as many believe.

Ensign · Nov 19, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

ow either the mobs are getting mopped up or if its a long fight problems can arise.

The difference here is that I don't care what goes in that slot, at all, against mobs that are wiped up within 10-15 seconds. Spiteful Spirit itself is not a good skill against mobs that wipe within 10-15 seconds.

In a slightly different vein, I feel that waiting until 7-8 seconds into a fight to put Barbs on a priority target is exceptionally weak play. The only thing I'd prioritize over Barbs is Enfeebling Blood against dangerous Ranger / Paragon packs. Spiteful Spirit deals damage slowly to what are usually low priority targets, that is rarely, if ever, your highest priority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

I have a couple solutions that work for me. The first is a hero running a minion bomber build which often keeps my bar full alone as it is.

Obviously you don't need GLE with someone cycling minions on your team. Arcane Echo is more valuable in that case (additionally because the energy cost becomes trivial), though the issues with it being a slow, non-priority spell remain.